Bitcoin educator Andreas Antonopoulos says he would like to see more privacy features on Bitcoin, but they’re unlikely to happen anytime soon. submitted by
In a livestream Q&A on Antonopoulos’ YouTube channel on July 7, he said Bitcoin (BTC) was unlikely to ever implement privacy features similar to those used by Monero (XMR).
Antonopoulos said creating such features on a cryptocurrency like BTC “would create an enormous amount of controversy.” In addition, he said the structure of Bitcoin simply doesn’t allow ring signatures and stealth addresses.
“I think what we’re going to see soon is Schnorr, Taproot, and Tapscript, which open the door to a lot of improvements,” Antonopoulos said, “But they still do not involve zero-knowledge proofs or the types of ring signatures and stealth addresses that are done in Monero. Bitcoin is not a privacy coin.”
Bitcoin privacy features effective?
The features to which Antonopoulos is referring — Schnorr, Taproot, and Tapscript (a scripting update to Taproot) — have been cited by others in the crypto community as having the potential to make Bitcoin more private.
The director of research at blockchain firm Blockstream Andrew Poelstra has referred to Taproot as a system which could possibly render any transaction mostly indistinguishable from one another on the BTC blockchain. However, he noted that “transaction amounts and the transaction graph are still exposed, which are much harder problems to address.”
Multisignature schemes (MuSigs) from Schnorr are another possibility. Poelstra said using this method doesn’t reveal the original set of signers, or even provide the number of signers for MuSig transactions.
Bitcoin can be better thought of as pseudonymous rather than fully anonymous, as many transactions on the BTC blockchain can still be traced even with these privacy improvements.
Andrés Guadamuz "Copyright and the Blockchain'
(2018) Sept/Oct I.N.L 1
Michele Finck, Blockchain, Regulation and Governance in Europe (Cambridge University Press 2018)
Thomas Buocz, “Bitcoin and the GDPR: allocating responsibility in distributed networks” https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3297531
Rob Sumroy, Duncan Mykura and Ian Ranson, “Blockchain and the GDPR: Reconcilable Differences?
Tom Cox and Andrew Solomon, “Blockchain: is the GDPR already outdated?”
: https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/insights/blogs/data-protection-blog/block-chain-is-the-gdpr-out-of-date-already (news article)
Matthias Berberich and Malgorzata Steiner, “Blockchain technology and the GDPR - how to reconcile privacy and distributed ledgers?”
– available on heinonline but signing in is temperamental so follow the link in this page to access https://libguides.napier.ac.uk/nubs/law https://jolt.richmond.edu/blockchain-demystified-a-technical-and-legal-introduction-to-distributed-and-centralised-ledgers/
- cited in Anne Rose’s article. Lengthy but will likely provide good analysis of legal challenges. https://edpl.lexxion.eu/data/article/12327/pdf/edpl_2018_01-007.pdf
- “blockchain and GDRP”. Is cited in Anne Rose’s article in reference to controllers of blockchain systems but will most likely include other topics of discussion in this area. Lengthy but READ
Rob Sumroy, Duncan Mykura and Ian Ranson, “Blockchain and the GDPR: Reconcilable Differences?
” https://www.slaughterandmay.com/what-we-do/publications-and-seminars/publications/client-publications-and-articles/b/blockchain-and-the-gdpr-reconcilable-differences/ Note
that this link is a summed up version of the following full publication: https://view.pagetiger.com/March-of-the-blocks/1
Points of Interest for the Introduction Points will include info that provides social/legal background to the issue. These points may concern either the journey that blockchain/ Bitcoin has been on so far i.e. driving factors, 2008 crash etc, or it may concern the GDPR and what caused the legislation to be implemented. Just take notes as I see relevant from the articles.
Satoshi’s white paper referenced. This will also, most likely, be referenced in my introduction so this is the proper citation – S Nakamoto, ‘Bitcoin: A Peer-to Peer Electronic Cash System’
Could find a quote from Andreas M. Antonopoulos in one of his books with regard to blockchain.
According to International Data Corporation’s Worldwide Semi-annual Blockchain Spending Guide, worldwide spending on blockchain solutions is predicted to reach $11.7 billion in 2022. Citation – IDC, ‘Worldwide Semi-annual Blockchain Spending Guide’  https://www.idc.com/trackeshowproductinfo.jsp?prod_id=1842
GDPR Citation – Regulation (EU) 2016/679 of the European Parliament and the Council of 27 April 2016 on the protection of natural persons with regard to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data, and repealing Directive 95/46/EC (Data Protection Directive)
European Parliament has dictated the importance of GDPR compliance in blockchain system - European Parliament Distributed ledger technologies and blockchains: building trust with disintermediation (3 October 2018) http://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-8-2018-0373_EN.pdf?redirect
Possibly look for a use case of each type of system (public/ centralised) to include in the intro.
Note that ‘blockchain’ can have many intended definitions. In Anne Rose’s article she defines it at a ‘fundamental’ level as a “distributed ledger based on cryptographic technology”.
European Parliament, Distributed ledger technologies and blockchains: building trust with disintermediation (3 October 2018) http://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/TA-8-2018-0373_EN.pdf?redirect – the parliament recommended that before general adoption of blockchain across the EU, trust must first be gained by the masses. This will entail education and proactive awareness of the field through training programmes etc. Note this is similar wording to Rose’s article so may need to change if used.
As another note on the definition of blockchain, Finck in her article “Blockchain and the general data protection regulation: Can distributed ledgers be squared with European data protection law”, defines it as Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT). She footnotes this by saying that there are a number of terms that exist, each with an emphasis on a particular aspect of the technology. She states “ given the lack of definitional consensus, the terms are use synonymously. – will need to include something along the same line as this.
NOTE – that in the same article by Finck, the intro includes discussion on BOTH the GDPR and blockchain so will be relevant when making points in the introduction about the background.
Again, in the same article above, Finck elaborates on the GDPRs effect on DLT. The right to data protection is a fundamental right as set out by Article 8(1) of the Charter of Fundamental Rights. Article 8(2) then goes on, personal data 'must be processed fairly for specified purposes and on the basis of the consent of the person concerned or some other legitimate basis laid down by law’. The Charter furthermore provides that everyone has a right to access personal data relating to them, including a right to have such data rectified (Art 8(2)). Article 16 TFEU moreover states that the Parliament and the Council shall lay down rules relating to the protection of individuals with regard to the processing of personal data by Union institutions, bodies, offices and agencies, and by the Member States when carrying out activities that fall within the scope of Union law (Art 16(2) TFEU). Most of this not my own words.
Further, suggests that the GDPR (replacing 1995 Data Protection Directive) has a dual objective; 1) seeks to promote fundamental rights through a high level of rights protection of natural persons and, 2) it pursues an economic aim in seeking to remove the obstacles to personal data flows between the various Member States (Art 1(1) GDPR and Recital 10 GDPR). The GDPR also emphasizes that whereas data protection enjoys the status of a fundamental right it is not an absolute right but must rather be considered in relation to its function in society and be balanced against other fundamental rights in respect of the proportionality principle (Recital 4 GDPR). Again, not my own words.
The structure of a network of nodes can either be centralised (one single central node), decentralised (a relatively small number of central nodes), or distributed (no central nodes). See Cf. Paul Baran, ‘On distributed communications: I. Introduction to distributed communications networks’ (1964) 1 www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_memoranda/2006/RM3420.pdf this link also provides a useful Figure to illustrate how these different networks look.
Before 25 May 2018, the central legal source for data protection at the European Union (EU) level was Directive 95/46/EC (‘Data Protection Directive – DPD’). Divergent ways of implementing the Directive in the EU Member States resulted in different legal standards and therefore different levels of protection (Recital 9 GDPR). The GDPR, which has now replaced the DPD, aims to create ‘a … more coherent data protection framework in the Union, backed by strong enforcement, given the importance of creating the trust that will allow the digital economy to develop across the internal market’ (Recital 7 GDPR) – found at https://poseidon01.ssrn.com/delivery.php?ID=963020092123086109000085120064025073033078047010022006094075126002103117011026115007006058039044111113028125000095120067006102123082069048092107121073092104088006125073013044098103127102072001127114102112085124104001090026091089121102031024083121109117&EXT=pdf
**Notice, I posted this originally in Cryptocurrency
; however, they deleted the post and shadowbanned me. Below is the entire contents of my post. Hopefully you guys find this useful. I post this because I'm beginning to become concerned about the similarity in tactics that bitcoin
uses and the monero community uses. It appears also that they have mods in high places, kind of like they tried to do here with that one mod who kissed up to Ver, ready to shadowban and hide any information that puts them in a bad light. Without further ado, the post:
Apparently some are questioning the contention that I was shadow banned. A mod from cryptocurrency
had this to say:
I'm a mod on /CryptoCurrency. Your post was not removed, and you are not shadowbanned. The misinformation spread here is outrageous.
Well, here's the proof:
This is one of the attempts I made to repost the thread after being shadowbanned, just to make sure. Notice how low the view count is, I search this today but it was created on the 15th: https://imgur.com/a/29g1T
Here are the results when I try to search for it: https://imgur.com/a/05eZH
And here is my reply to that mod below:
Then you're a liar and I'm glad you came out. I ended up having to post the thread 3 times, and each time after logging out I could not find it. As a matter of fact, I STILL cannot find it while logged in. https://imgur.com/a/15s4C Notice, my original post was titled the exact same with the exception of the '- posting by request' part. So the fact that you can only see the crosspost from btc is proof that my post was removed.
That Imgur link was my search for the original thread. If that's not shadowbanning then I don't know what is. Again, the monero community has mods in high places and are using them to push their agenda, just like bitcoin did.
***************************************** END EDIT
Everyday on here you can see great news about Monero. From soon-arriving hardware support, to bulletproofs reducing tx sizes 80%, to the recent Globee fundraiser announcement where musicians will accept monero over the holidays. That stuff is good news for Monero indeed. However, to bring a little balance to the equation, today I want to consider some reasons you would want to AVOID monero.
Disclaimer, I hodl BCH, PIVX, Dash, ZCash, ZCoin, VTC, ETH, MAID and XMR and some other coins. I'd say most of these are considered competition, at least by the XMR community. None of that influences my posts. I post about LTC being shit because I believe it is shit. Indeed, it was shit for 4 years until it got on coinbase. That has nothing to do with the fact that I hodl BCH. Same for my posts about BTC, and the same for my posts about XMR.
The reasons you may
want to avoid monero are as follows:
1) Monero's price may be manipulated by Tether, DNM's looking for a quick P&D, and exchanges looking for the same. https://twitter.com/FrydayNiteLites/status/938093777347997697 https://www.tradingview.com/chart/XMRUSDT/dgYThYjA-Monero-Is-Manipulated/
2) Monero's most attractive and user-friendly wallet, mymonero.com, is closed-source
. What's more, it is run by the lead developer of the XMR project. You may consider this a conflict of interest. It is telling, that fluffy's (the dev) refusal to share source with Jaxx was instrumental in their decision to abandon XMR integration earlier this year.
3) When monero began it actually began from SCAMMERS. Monero's code originally had a crippleminer that deliberately lowered miner rewards for all but the devs. Apparently the current devs are 'not the same people'. But that is a leap of faith to make. You may want to avoid it. https://www.reddit.com/Monero/comments/4r4fw9/what_is_the_monero_cripple_mine_and_fastmine/
4) Monero and their community are heavily associated with out and out scams. One such is basically forcing users of certain websites to mine monero without their consent: http://www.newsweek.com/500-million-pcs-secretly-mining-cryptocurrency-research-bitcoin-683982
The monero community does not seem to have a problem with this.
5) The monero community has a history of vote-brigading, FUDing perceived competitor coins (Like ZCash, Dash, and PIVX). Some of their early antics can be seen here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1233817.0
Excellent summation of the sock puppet/troll accounts and stuck in needlessly long loops for mining, good luck to anyone who pursues the hidden agenda of this coin because you are going to need it.
He is. And when he is challenged on logic, it is often myself. But the point against smooth made by the OP is that he argues ad nauseum even where there is no point and it is wasting time. He tries to control the entire forum. Logic can be a means to an end, but is not an end unless you just want to be mired in verbiage. The real world is where we deliver 10 million new users to the ecosystem.
None of the Monerotards have done that and they will never do that because they target this forum instead of targeting creativity and respecting it. They prefer control over creativity. They want everyone to think their expertise is the highest and nothing else can match their collective capabilities. Yet the reality is they don't even have the best technology, even against a non-cryptographer and a non-mathematician. Boastful groups are like Humpty Dumpty.
This shows how they shilled their threads on Bitcointalk early on:
I counted close to 800 topics on Monero!
One topic alone has over 540 pages..
I highly doubt there is even 100 users with coins.
Pretty sketchy when after years now they can't get their crappy coin on Cryptsy LOL
Here, they tried to impersonate Andreas Antonopolous (yes, THAT Andreas) to pump Monero: https://forum.bitcoin.com/post3253.html#p3253
Quote from Moneroshill:
AndreasAntonopoulos wrote: Good to hear your 'voice' again Charlie!
Fungibility is not a luxury, it's a necessity. I've been following Monero for some time now and I like what I'm seeing. The Bitcoin protocol has more potential as programmable money if it co-exists with another public ledger that is private and opaque on the protocol level. The best version of digital cash I've seen to date is Monero. Bitcoin on its own will never be anonymous, so never fully fungible.
Actual quote from real Andreas:
This is an impostor account, using my name (Andreas here) to pump Monero and diss bitcoin. I have reported and requested validation from the forum to confirm my identity.
See my tweet proving this is my real account: 655293052383133696
Lol this was their reply:
wtf ... you banned a user because you didn't like his/her choice of username and avatar, or you didn't like their point about fungability? Can you post the forum rule user 'AndreasAntonopoulos' broke to require a permanent ban and deleting of his/her posts? Is this forum instituting identity checks and KYC policies now, or was this user banned because you claim he/she was a malevolent imposter? Please, what is your username and avatar policy on this forum? I saw what he/she wrote and recognized it as a parody spoof immediately, and the user was clearly not trying to defraud anyone, and admitted their intentions as soon as AA posted. I thought this forum was started in response to censorship at bitcointalk.org. It looks like you didn't like the user's message, and you saw a way to ban them to remove their opinion
Well, you get the idea.
6) The biggest reason: Monero's privacy was actually broken
for 3 out of the 4 years it existed. Link 2
Andrew Miller, a respected cryptography, posted research in April proving that Monero transactions could be deanoned using a form of blockchain analysis. You can go here
to see the results of the research for yourself.
7) Monero is slower, has larger transactions and is FAR MORE expensive than other privacy options like PIVX and Zcash. Using PIVX to convert to zPIV is basically free while the avg monero transaction is around $5. Of course, to be extra safe they recommend that you 'churn' your transactions, basically send them to yourself again. But at $5 a pop, this is prohibitively expensive for the average guy.
These are not reasons to SELL your monero, nor are they reasons to avoid it entirely. I've said in the past that I like XMR the coin, but the community has shady origins that may give some investors pause. Bytecoin, from which XMR descends directly, is a KNOWN scam. The original developers of monero were DEFINITELY scammers. This advice is the other side of the coin to the constant monero pumping you can see here. Happy investing!
I'm getting ready to send this recruitment note out to my first choice candidate as host----
I'm trying to get in touch with Andrew Demeter. I'm writing on behalf of the cryptocurrency community of Myriad. We are a fast growing, very active community for which we're in the process of establishing a short weekly podcast for. The plan presently is a micro-podcast that focuses mainly on Myriad's community projects placed within an established podcast w/ a relevant audience. This we hope will give outsiders a glimpse into the decentralized development and community.
Presently we're trying to identify the perfect personality to represent the community which is why I'm reaching out to Andrew. After seeing Nancy P stumped by Andrew's simple but powerful question then seeing an interview of his on Anarachast, I personally feel what Myriad is aiming to accomplish would resonant with Andrew's political leanings. So in a nutshell I'm hoping to recruit Andrew to be the voice of our community. We're planning to setup a bounty for this service, so there would be some compensation involved, although right now it would be difficult to project what that would be in a dollar amount.
To give some background on Myriad. It's a cryptocurrency much like Bitcoin with an important innovation that ensures decentralization. You might be familiar w/ the recent issues w/ the mining pool Ghash.io having more than 50% of the bitcoin network's hashrate. The 51% double-spend attack has long been the theoretical achilles heel of cryptos that use one algorithm in securing its blockchain (public ledger). There's a lot of speculation regarding whether a double-spend attack would actually ever occur or not, but regardless for many the continued trend of centralization is troubling. Myriad's approach to securing its blockchain helps solve this issue.
Instead of using one algorithm Myriad uses 5 concurrently to secure its blockchain. This allows for an array of hardware types to process transaction. For example, a miner using an Application Specific Integrated Circuit (known as ASICs) can mine alongside an average joe, using the cpu of his desktop, on a level playing field since they're not actually competing against each other for block rewards. This allows for a more robust and decentralized network. (Andreas Antonopoulos explaining Myriad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3j5jlB0mmQ&feature=youtu.be&t=1h21m43s
Presently as far as price and marketcap Myriad is flying mostly under the radar. Nevertheless, Myriad is one of the few coins that has important features that presently only coins like Bitcoin have (i.e. Electrum wallet, SMS wallet, color-coin metalayer).
If there's any interest on Andrew's part in this project or if there's any questions have him drop by Myriad's reddit page. http://www.reddit.com/myriadcoin/
Andreas M. Antonopoulos is a best-selling author, speaker, educator, and highly sought after expert in Bitcoin and open blockchain technologies. He is known for making complex subjects easy to understand and highlighting both the positive and negative impacts these technologies can have on our global societies. As an educator, his mission is to educate as many people as possible, in as many ... Der berühmte Andreas Antonopoulos sagt, dass Bitcoin (BTC) seiner Meinung nach nie die Datenschutzfunktionen beinhalten wird, wie man sie von Monero kennt. Antonopolous sagt, dass er gerne mehr Datenschutzfunktionen beim Bitcoin sehen würde, jedoch erscheint es für ihn unwahrscheinlich, dass diese bald umgesetzt werden. In einem Q&A-Livestream auf seinem YouTube-Kanal am 7. Juli sagte ... Andreas Antonopoulos discussed how he desired to see Bitcoin have more “privacy features” in a recent live stream Q&A session published on Youtube on July 7. Bitcoin educator Andreas Antonopoulos says he want to see extra privateness options on Bitcoin, however they’re unlikely to occur anytime quickly. In a livestream Q&A on Antonopoulos’ YouTube channel on July 7, he mentioned Bitcoin (BTC) was unlikely to ever implement privateness options much like these utilized by Monero (XMR). Antonopoulos mentioned creating such options … Andreas Antonopoulos denkt, dass Bitcoin wahrscheinlich nie solche Datenschutzfunktionen wie Monero haben wird. Zwar sagt der Krypto-Experte, dass er sich mehr Datenschutzfunktionen für Bitcoin wünschen würde, jedoch hält er dies für unwahrscheinlich. Bitcoin wird Monero nicht übertreffen. In einem Livestream auf YouTube ging Antonopoulos auf die Fragen von Zuschauern ein. Während des ...
In this talk, Andreas addresses the speculation about what will be the "next Bitcoin" or the "next Ethereum." Echoing previous talks like 'Invest in Educatio... Bitcoin creator is Craig Wright You don't have to like him, but you should pay attention to what he is saying when he explains how Bitcoin system works, no better person to learn from about ... I first met Andreas Antonopoulos at the 2014 Bitcoin Expo conference in Toronto, Canada. At that time Andreas was already established as the most publicly re... Andreas Antonopoulos 2019: Bitcoin vs. Facebook Libra coin = End of retail banking - Duration: 34:35. Cryptonites 48,512 views. 34:35 Andreas Antonopoulos is a bitcoin entrepreneur, he also serves on the advisory boards of several bitcoin startups and serves as the Chief Security Officer of...